Council Workshop October 1st, 2007
This meeting was difficult to cover as has frequently been the case in the last several months. Being able to hear what the Council is saying in the Council Chamber, in the absence of the sound system, is difficult, if not impossible for many in the audience. This becomes even worse when someone is trying to record the event.
At this point I have to take issue with holding public meetings in a space where many in attendance cannot hear what is being said. A quick review of Missouri's Sunshine Law brings us back to an all familiar provision:
I believe the argument can be made that these meetings are not being held in a place that is reasonably accessible, or accommodating the anticipated attendance when most in attendance cannot hear what is being said by the Council or the Mayor at these meetings.
Everyone has been reasonable with this issue due to the Council meetings having to be held at the Community Center because of the high attendance (and the judge's order). We understand that damage could be done to the sound system if it is regularly moved back and forth from the Community Center to City Hall. However, that sound system is regularly broken down and moved from the gym to a storage room in the Community Center. Since it apparently can be moved short distances without concern, it would seem to me that the best approach, if the intent is to be reasonably accessible, would be to hold workshop meetings in one of the smaller meeting rooms at the Community Center. That way, the sound system could be setup without damage concerns and everyone in attendance could actually hear what their elected representatives were discussing. Better still, the sound system might not even be needed at all as the acoustics in the meeting rooms are far superior to the Council Chambers.
I also have to take issue with holding Pension Board meetings at 3:00PM (as is the case with the scheduled Joint Pension Boards meeting scheduled for Tuesday, October 2nd, at 3:00PM) 3:00PM meetings cannot possibly be considered "at a time reasonably convenient to the public". Overland is a blue collar town for the most part. The majority of our residents are working, on their commute home or picking up children from school at this hour. Holding meetings that involve a great deal of taxpayer money at an hour when few, if any, taxpayers can attend is not in the spirit of the Sunshine Law in my opinion.
Soapbox moment over.
The Council held a Workshop meeting in the Council Chambers at City Hall on Monday, October 1st, 2007 beginning at 6:30PM. The meeting started with consideration of a job description for hiring another person for the MIS (computer / IT) department. The additional person is certainly needed. However, the chosen pay scale, starting at $31,000.00, is too low to hire an IT professional. That means this is an entry level position. The suggested requirements are a high school diploma (or GED), A+ certification and 2 years work experience or equivalent education. Though those requirements seem rather low, the 2 year experience pushes the limit of the pay proposed for this position.
The Council decided to table this discussion for further review and consideration of possible confidentiality agreements as well as bonding requirements for this position (as well as for the current MIS employee). The Council plans to revisit this issue at a newly scheduled Workshop meeting to be held on Tuesday, October 9th at 6:30PM in the Council Chambers at City hall.
The Council then moved on to the Marquee sign. They agreed to accept the bid from Bill Yount Signs for $17,551.60 for the new Marquee sign as well as Gillick Brickwork Inc.'s $7780.00 bid for the brick work and Lee Deering Electric company's $2,300.00 bid for the electrical work needed for the sign, bringing the cost of this new sign to $27,631.60 not including the costs of moving the existing sign at the Overland Community Center to Wild Acres.
The next item considered was lighting at Brooks Park. The Council agreed to accept a bid from Lee Deering Electric company (I didn't catch the amount of this bid).
From there the Council discussed park grants. It was proposed that they apply for a St. Louis County Park Grant to repair and upgrade the bathrooms at Norman Myer and Brooks Parks as well as bring them into compliance with ADA (American's with Disabilities Act) regulations. Acting Public Works Director Chuck Boone estimated that this could be done for approximately $140,000.00.
Councilperson O'Connell expressed concern about investing more money into the frequently vandalized bathrooms at Brooks park. He suggested that we get the lights installed first and see if vandalism is reduced before we put more money into that property. Councilperson Owensby took exception to this. Mr. Boone pointed out that they would be investing in ways to prevent future vandalism. One example he gave was the use of motion activated fixtures that would prevent vandals from jamming faucets open and blocking drains in order to flood the bathrooms (as has happened more than once in the past). While this might work, as a friend pointed out to me earlier this evening, these very sophisticated and expensive faucets can be destroyed rather easily by a vandal with a very simple and cheap hammer. The result would likely be the similar with water flooding the bathroom but with the added expense of repairing, or more likely replacing these expensive fixtures.
Councilperson O'Connell asked that the Council consider adding resurfacing the track at Norman Myers park to the grant proposal. It was said once that the cost of doing this could be around $30,000.00 However, Councilperson Jones suggested the Ritenour High School track as an example of what would be put on the Norman Myers track. That type of project generally costs around $100,000.00 or more on a full size track. Also, vehicles, including large semi trucks, have to drive on the existing track for setting up the various fairs and events that are regularly held there. I don't believe this material would hold up to that abuse.
Ultimately the Council voted to submit a proposal for improving the bathrooms at Norman Myers and Brooks parks as well as resurfacing the track at Norman Myers. I hope they have a plan for protecting the track from vehicle traffic at future events. I also hope that the cost of doing this does not hurt our chances of receiving a grant, like the over 1 million dollar proposal for a new pool complex did last year. The Council also agreed to consider Legion Park for a grant opportunity later this year, and to discuss that at the next workshop meeting.
The next item addressed at this meeting was openings on the Board of Adjustment. One member of the Board apparently wants to resign, and an additional opening was created when Les Dills was appointed to the City Council. The Mayor proposed the following names, keeping in mind the Council's concerns about equal representation of the Wards, on this board:
1> Dennis Hegaman of Ward 1 (please post a comment if we are wrong on the spelling)
2> Bob Estin of Ward 3 (please post a comment if we are wrong on the spelling)
With Jack Arnold (Ward 2) and Rudy Kuhlman (Ward 4) remaining as members and Tom Eckert (Ward 4) remaining as the Chairman.
Additionally, Mayor Schneider proposed John Seals (Ward 1) as a board alternate. At the last Council meeting Councilperson Eddie Cuminale asked that John Seals be considered to fill a vacant seat on the board. Discussion followed with Councilperson Owensby asking the Mayor to consider Cliff McBride (not sure on this name at this time) as well.
What threw me was when Mayor Schneider said: "John Seals was the only resident to come forward and express interest". Why, especially when you consider the constant charges of nepotism or cronyism lately, would you choose to limit "the only resident to come forward and express interest" to the role of alternate rather than full member, regardless of the fact that the alternate would likely be used semi-regularly on that board?
The issue of providing assistance with the cost of Trash service to those in need was covered briefly next. The Council was informed that City Attorney Robert Herman would be prepared to make a presentation to the Council on what options they would have with such a plan as well as the pitfalls. That presentation is scheduled for the October 29th Council Workshop meeting.
There were a host of issues discussed under new business including possible stop sign locations, speeding concerns and the like. The Council and the Mayor also agreed to move forward on establishing city email addresses for the Council members (a request made by Jim Schmidt at the last Council meeting if I remember correctly). The Council got a look at a new Ordinance proposed by the Municipal Court as well. This proposed ordinance will be brought to the Council at the next regularly scheduled Council Meeting.
One interesting item that was mentioned under new business was when the Mayor raised the possibility that the Council might be equipped with laptops in the future to speed the dissemination of information and documents while reducing printing costs (both financial and environmental). While this is certainly a good idea I hope that the City will consider the real need of computers, cameras and modern radio equipment in our police cars as well. Having the best tools at someone's disposal generally allows them to work more efficiently. However, while laptops for the Council might improve their productivity, laptops and the like for our Police officers would likely save lives. It is simply a matter of priorities.
Under Old Business Councilperson Jones asked about the trial period for the Blackberries several at City Hall had been using. Mr. Boone stated that no one was using theirs other than as a phone because they had as yet been unable to get the vendor to come in for the training they had promised to provide to the employees equipped with these devices. Based on that response, it appears the City will be considering canceling this trial and returning the equipment.
What follows is the video of the meeting in its entirety. I've amplified the audio as best as I can though it can still be hard to follow at times:
City Council Workshop
October 1st, 2007
(2 Hours, 15 minutes)
At this point I have to take issue with holding public meetings in a space where many in attendance cannot hear what is being said. A quick review of Missouri's Sunshine Law brings us back to an all familiar provision:
610.020 subsection 2: Each meeting shall be held at a place reasonably accessible to the public and of sufficient size to accommodate the anticipated attendance by members of the public, and at a time reasonably convenient to the public, unless for good cause such a place or time is impossible or impractical. Every reasonable effort shall be made to grant special access to the meeting to handicapped or disabled individuals.
I believe the argument can be made that these meetings are not being held in a place that is reasonably accessible, or accommodating the anticipated attendance when most in attendance cannot hear what is being said by the Council or the Mayor at these meetings.
Everyone has been reasonable with this issue due to the Council meetings having to be held at the Community Center because of the high attendance (and the judge's order). We understand that damage could be done to the sound system if it is regularly moved back and forth from the Community Center to City Hall. However, that sound system is regularly broken down and moved from the gym to a storage room in the Community Center. Since it apparently can be moved short distances without concern, it would seem to me that the best approach, if the intent is to be reasonably accessible, would be to hold workshop meetings in one of the smaller meeting rooms at the Community Center. That way, the sound system could be setup without damage concerns and everyone in attendance could actually hear what their elected representatives were discussing. Better still, the sound system might not even be needed at all as the acoustics in the meeting rooms are far superior to the Council Chambers.
I also have to take issue with holding Pension Board meetings at 3:00PM (as is the case with the scheduled Joint Pension Boards meeting scheduled for Tuesday, October 2nd, at 3:00PM) 3:00PM meetings cannot possibly be considered "at a time reasonably convenient to the public". Overland is a blue collar town for the most part. The majority of our residents are working, on their commute home or picking up children from school at this hour. Holding meetings that involve a great deal of taxpayer money at an hour when few, if any, taxpayers can attend is not in the spirit of the Sunshine Law in my opinion.
Soapbox moment over.
The Council held a Workshop meeting in the Council Chambers at City Hall on Monday, October 1st, 2007 beginning at 6:30PM. The meeting started with consideration of a job description for hiring another person for the MIS (computer / IT) department. The additional person is certainly needed. However, the chosen pay scale, starting at $31,000.00, is too low to hire an IT professional. That means this is an entry level position. The suggested requirements are a high school diploma (or GED), A+ certification and 2 years work experience or equivalent education. Though those requirements seem rather low, the 2 year experience pushes the limit of the pay proposed for this position.
The Council decided to table this discussion for further review and consideration of possible confidentiality agreements as well as bonding requirements for this position (as well as for the current MIS employee). The Council plans to revisit this issue at a newly scheduled Workshop meeting to be held on Tuesday, October 9th at 6:30PM in the Council Chambers at City hall.
The Council then moved on to the Marquee sign. They agreed to accept the bid from Bill Yount Signs for $17,551.60 for the new Marquee sign as well as Gillick Brickwork Inc.'s $7780.00 bid for the brick work and Lee Deering Electric company's $2,300.00 bid for the electrical work needed for the sign, bringing the cost of this new sign to $27,631.60 not including the costs of moving the existing sign at the Overland Community Center to Wild Acres.
The next item considered was lighting at Brooks Park. The Council agreed to accept a bid from Lee Deering Electric company (I didn't catch the amount of this bid).
From there the Council discussed park grants. It was proposed that they apply for a St. Louis County Park Grant to repair and upgrade the bathrooms at Norman Myer and Brooks Parks as well as bring them into compliance with ADA (American's with Disabilities Act) regulations. Acting Public Works Director Chuck Boone estimated that this could be done for approximately $140,000.00.
Councilperson O'Connell expressed concern about investing more money into the frequently vandalized bathrooms at Brooks park. He suggested that we get the lights installed first and see if vandalism is reduced before we put more money into that property. Councilperson Owensby took exception to this. Mr. Boone pointed out that they would be investing in ways to prevent future vandalism. One example he gave was the use of motion activated fixtures that would prevent vandals from jamming faucets open and blocking drains in order to flood the bathrooms (as has happened more than once in the past). While this might work, as a friend pointed out to me earlier this evening, these very sophisticated and expensive faucets can be destroyed rather easily by a vandal with a very simple and cheap hammer. The result would likely be the similar with water flooding the bathroom but with the added expense of repairing, or more likely replacing these expensive fixtures.
Councilperson O'Connell asked that the Council consider adding resurfacing the track at Norman Myers park to the grant proposal. It was said once that the cost of doing this could be around $30,000.00 However, Councilperson Jones suggested the Ritenour High School track as an example of what would be put on the Norman Myers track. That type of project generally costs around $100,000.00 or more on a full size track. Also, vehicles, including large semi trucks, have to drive on the existing track for setting up the various fairs and events that are regularly held there. I don't believe this material would hold up to that abuse.
Ultimately the Council voted to submit a proposal for improving the bathrooms at Norman Myers and Brooks parks as well as resurfacing the track at Norman Myers. I hope they have a plan for protecting the track from vehicle traffic at future events. I also hope that the cost of doing this does not hurt our chances of receiving a grant, like the over 1 million dollar proposal for a new pool complex did last year. The Council also agreed to consider Legion Park for a grant opportunity later this year, and to discuss that at the next workshop meeting.
The next item addressed at this meeting was openings on the Board of Adjustment. One member of the Board apparently wants to resign, and an additional opening was created when Les Dills was appointed to the City Council. The Mayor proposed the following names, keeping in mind the Council's concerns about equal representation of the Wards, on this board:
1> Dennis Hegaman of Ward 1 (please post a comment if we are wrong on the spelling)
2> Bob Estin of Ward 3 (please post a comment if we are wrong on the spelling)
With Jack Arnold (Ward 2) and Rudy Kuhlman (Ward 4) remaining as members and Tom Eckert (Ward 4) remaining as the Chairman.
Additionally, Mayor Schneider proposed John Seals (Ward 1) as a board alternate. At the last Council meeting Councilperson Eddie Cuminale asked that John Seals be considered to fill a vacant seat on the board. Discussion followed with Councilperson Owensby asking the Mayor to consider Cliff McBride (not sure on this name at this time) as well.
What threw me was when Mayor Schneider said: "John Seals was the only resident to come forward and express interest". Why, especially when you consider the constant charges of nepotism or cronyism lately, would you choose to limit "the only resident to come forward and express interest" to the role of alternate rather than full member, regardless of the fact that the alternate would likely be used semi-regularly on that board?
The issue of providing assistance with the cost of Trash service to those in need was covered briefly next. The Council was informed that City Attorney Robert Herman would be prepared to make a presentation to the Council on what options they would have with such a plan as well as the pitfalls. That presentation is scheduled for the October 29th Council Workshop meeting.
There were a host of issues discussed under new business including possible stop sign locations, speeding concerns and the like. The Council and the Mayor also agreed to move forward on establishing city email addresses for the Council members (a request made by Jim Schmidt at the last Council meeting if I remember correctly). The Council got a look at a new Ordinance proposed by the Municipal Court as well. This proposed ordinance will be brought to the Council at the next regularly scheduled Council Meeting.
One interesting item that was mentioned under new business was when the Mayor raised the possibility that the Council might be equipped with laptops in the future to speed the dissemination of information and documents while reducing printing costs (both financial and environmental). While this is certainly a good idea I hope that the City will consider the real need of computers, cameras and modern radio equipment in our police cars as well. Having the best tools at someone's disposal generally allows them to work more efficiently. However, while laptops for the Council might improve their productivity, laptops and the like for our Police officers would likely save lives. It is simply a matter of priorities.
Under Old Business Councilperson Jones asked about the trial period for the Blackberries several at City Hall had been using. Mr. Boone stated that no one was using theirs other than as a phone because they had as yet been unable to get the vendor to come in for the training they had promised to provide to the employees equipped with these devices. Based on that response, it appears the City will be considering canceling this trial and returning the equipment.
What follows is the video of the meeting in its entirety. I've amplified the audio as best as I can though it can still be hard to follow at times:
If you are viewing this content through a news-reader
you might not be able to see the video below.
you might not be able to see the video below.
City Council Workshop
October 1st, 2007
(2 Hours, 15 minutes)
Labels: Appointments, City Council, Council, Overland, Workshop
posted by Overland Sailor @ 10:46 PM 
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7 Comments:
I'm not doing anything different with our video footage or the conversion of it. However, Google appears to be changing it from the wide-screen format in their conversion process. This is why everything in it looks taller and thinner.
I'm looking for a solution for this but so far I've had no luck.
OS,
I've read some video articles on improving the videos to display best in Google and U-Tube. It appears both sites are only capable of displaying 4X3. The articles report that video shot at 16x9 aspect will appear distorted.
I still can't see why they won't let hook to the sound board. Too simple a solution I guess.
Laptops for council members? Did we not learn anything from the cell phone debacle?
My God--get to the public library if you don't have computer access, but to expect our tax dollars to pay for something so ludicrous is unbelievable!
Thanks for posting this video. The audio had it's moments where one could hear very clearly, but other times not. Oh well.
Regarding the computer tech, I was a bit surprised that there was someone in house qualified for the position.
I am definitely for promoting/transferring from within, but hope that we are not watering down the requirements in order to give a buddy a new job.
Really, is there an A+ certified person already on staff?
The Workshop meeting the Council Scheduled for next Tuesday October 9th, 2007) has been canceled.
Kilvinsky My camera doesn't have the ability to tie into the sound system like charter does. However, that wouldn't make much of a difference at these meetings since they are not setting up the sound system at all.
Again, good work Sailor...
Thanks...
Regarding the laptops, I have to agree with the sentiments expressed by Nellie Bly...
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